I do read my work out loud. But only to myself. 😂 It actually helps me spot sticky places where the flow is interrupted by an extraneous word, or even a typo. I catch a lot of there, they're, their errors when I'm reading out loud. And places where I've doubled a a word by mistake. 😉
I like my writing voice better than my speaking voice. I tend to hide behind humor armor in real life conversations. You'll definitely find that snarkiness in my writing, too, but the sweet stuff comes out more easily for me on the page.
My favorite fiction to write (and read) is a good mix heart, hurt and humor.
And rhythm is important. The rhythm of a sentence. Of a scene. The back and forth of dialogue. I think that comes from my music and theater background. If I need a character to take a dramatic pause before they say the last line of a chapter... I'm going to give you the right number of syllables of action to achieve that "space".
I think this is a great distinction to make. Reading aloud for editing purposes (catching errors) and reading aloud for performance. I wonder if the latter inspires different edits than the former.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment :) Completely agree about rhythm.
I’m with this one too. I read aloud to make sure it “sounds right.” Also I have a writing style too that’s more like “write like I talk” I love this deep dive article
Yes, rhythm is very important to me also. I posted another comment where I elaborated more the speaking voice thing. It seems you and I have some things in common. I like the way you've put it, resolving the chord. :)
Reading aloud is really important to me, too. That, and printing something out to read. Somehow the change of medium or sense makes other facets of a piece come out.
“It’s as if the whole shenanigan of literature is a dialogue between two people — reader and writer — that’s designed to be carried out entirely within our heads, a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it.”
Beautiful insight, and puts in high detail why a writer needs to always consider and honor that alchemical head-space that writing takes place in.
Worry can wreck it! Also, In college, for a paper i wrote in an intro to media class, my professor found it hilarious and read my words back to me, but his pauses made undeniable jokes in my sentences i had not intended! How to live with that? Does it happen often? I suspect it often happens in reverse, someone writes something sarcastic and it’s received as sincere and profound! Also, Seeing words typed helps me generate the next words, usually alliterative with inner rhyme. Also, In the editing, i often trim the alliteration and inner rhyme, hoping to create a more authentic voice. Also, im still grateful for that other professor my senior year who warned me that there was a difference between writing and speaking and i should learn it if i wanted to pass his class! Also, working abroad, i learned to write in english that when run through a translator will be most likely to convey the meaning i intended. Also, dont limit yourself to your speaking voice. Consider writing like a performance, where it might be fun to take on a role with an accent, or stylistic quirk, perhaps a lot of run-ons, or alsos? For fun! Also, for beauty. Also, for truth!
This made me laugh too hard, Will. The thought of your professor butchering your flow with weird pauses, and you just listening and horror (and maybe embarrassment!). Thanks for dropping this fascinating comment. And yes, I agree. Writing as a performance, where you can summon any voice. But I do wonder, is there such a thing as "default" voice . . . "your voice" . . . when the performance is turned off?
Maybe, sure, an authentic voice. But I feel “authentic” might always need quotation makes around it. Unless you’re a saint and speak the same to everyone everywhere every time. Another anecdote! I wrote mass emails in college (2001) and strangers would occasionally write me and tell me that something I said uplifted them / helped them process a tough time, and could I please add them to my email list..... this deserves a much longer post I don’t have time to write... but eventually I quit! Because I was able to write these emails even when I wasn’t feeling it! I had a “voice” that I could dip into regardless of my state of mind that I knew others liked
Maybe you’re right and my experience is an example of cowardice more than terror. But in the moment, being aware of two distinct voices - one that was always there and one I could conjure, terrified me
Your writing style and voice, being true-to-speech, writing the way you talk- is what immediately hooked me about your writing. Reading your posts is the mental version of sinking into a comfy, oversized chair across the room from one another for a conversation that lasts as long as it may.
That leads to the brain breaker you mentioned. If we all LITERALLY sat in a room together in our big comfy chairs and started talking, the cadence/vibe/pace/etc. would be totally different for all of us than it is here in this space. The energy moves and crosses differently with physical proximity and verbal communication. You dropped that bomb (regarding literature)- “...a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it” Damn so good. It's that forethought! It gives us the chance to say what we mean and mean what we say.
I have also never “read” an audiobook. I’ve always been so adamant that it’s not as deep of an experience. But so many of my friends love them and retain the experience they have with it. It makes me wonder if they are tapping into different, transcendent elements of the book, of which I’m less aware because I’m in my warm, happy headspace. I dunno, it still feels like a different energy or wavelength being imposed upon me. But like you said- maybe not better or worse, just different.
So naturally, I do voiceovers of my writing- haha! Weird, Jeannie. It does help keep me honest. It’s helping me slowly dissolve the facade that my ego throws up to protect the real insides. I figure the voiceover is an option, not a requirement, for experiencing the text. Thank you for writing this Matt. It really got me thinking.
Dang, Jeannie! Thanks so much for the comfy couch compliment. I think it's the best ever. Great points you make. Yes, if we actually were sunken in those couches, our chatter would probably be much different, if there were any at all, since I might drift off in the warm, cozy, comfiness.
Thanks for sharing all this. And I really love your voiceovers. Not to mention, it's accessible for the vision impaired. And as some others have commented here, I think reading aloud really does force one to clean up the writing to the utmost by catching little errors and rhythm weirdness.
So much fascinating stuff in this edition. The part that really resonated with me is that people expect us to be as good with the spoken word as we are with the written word. Those are totally different talents!
Agree, Jillian! Like, I'm sorry I'm not a dang orator. Give me a pen and paper and I'll write a more eloquent response, lol. This is one reason why letter writing is a fun form of communication. It's like texting, but longer form of course.
I’ll tell you, this FEELS like you’re talking--it feels spoken, discursive. But I think I might have appreciated it in half the words. Would it be the same piece? I don’t know. I’m not trying to be critical, just to respond to your questions about finding the right balance. It’s a great question.
I do write for the ear. And I always read my work out loud. Like Meg says in this thread, it helps me with the flow and to catch typos, etc.
My background is in theater and I love to read in public. I like my speaking voice and try to keep it that way as a writing voice. I don't go with the Hemingway rules, at least not always. Sometimes it's fine, but I have more than one voice. My head's a little tweaky like that.
Rhythm is very important to me as well. Again, Meg and I have some things in common.
Rhythm is maybe the most important, Victor, I agree! Once you've got the basic idea of writing (punctuation, vocab, etc.) I think most all of it boils down to rhythm. Thanks for this thoughtful comment :)
Yeah, i'm like a cult survivor type of writer so I just write like in my normal voice with varied degrees or out-rage, logical nerd and self-analytical confused rant.
Oh and the quote “It’s as if the whole shenanigan of literature is a dialogue between two people — reader and writer — that’s designed to be carried out entirely within our heads, a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it.” 🔥💥
I also write like I talk. Then I have to reread and edit the punctuation to make sure the reader is hearing what I'm saying since they can't hear the inflection in my brain as I write. [Whew, long sentence!]
P.S. Like Grandma, I look forward to your Friday musings. Keep up the good work!
Another excellent investigation. As usual. Lots of good food for thought. I really like your recognition and description of that space that writer and reader share. And then the question about the audible experience and what is lost. As you know, or at least as I've mentioned before I consume a lot of audio books as a result of my long commute. The experience like you say is necessarily different than book in hand reading. Is it better? Is it worse? Is it both better and worse depending on the particulars? I can tell you different things happen. I become very critical of the voice, whether it stays true to the characters and whether it knows how to get out of the way and let the writing come through. I can tell you that it's absolutely possible to have an emotional response to the writing. I just finished listening to The Four Winds, by Kristin Hannah and I was choking back tears over too many days as I toiled along with the characters through horrendous dust bowl nightmares. Would it possibly have been even more impactful had I read it? Possibly. I generally take in genre style books, mysteries and such for the audio trips. Afterall I want to be distracted and entertained. If there were a book , something I anticipate might be something profound, a book whose language promises to offer something rare, I will want to hold that book in my hands and enter that space you so beautifully describe. Nicely done.
Yes, I was thinking of you a bit when writing this, because I know you enjoy audiobooks! It's interesting to hear your take. I think I've heard someone else mention that they sometimes get caught up on the reader's voice. Still, I want to try it. As you say, on a long drive, why not? It's not "or" but "and". Thanks for the food for thought. Hope all is well :)
yes the conservative wave of 2022 from the normies awash in MK Ultra was pathetic. Many know and prefer to be US citizens and just ride along with the 4th Reich. The General Public is overwhelmed by the CIA brainwashing technique named MK Ultra from Allen Dulles et al. 1950s.The current Deep State, swamp creatures; corrupt de facto is made from Paper Clip importation of WWII Nazi educated engineers and scientists. Their kids are boomers and their grandkids and GGkids are influential members of Soros et al. Judiciary of BAR, DA, DOJ. Start counting the players in the FBI and DOJ that seem to line up with Social Democrats. With German last names, Kazarian Mafia? And all the daughters are married to whom in the 4th Reich
I also think I write like I talk. But I don’t like talking nearly as much as I like writing.  I don’t trust the words I use when I talk at all like I can trust the words when I write. Interesting discussion...
Interesting . . . I'm not sure what to make of that. Is that, like, didactic? Very logical? I do like reading that kind of stuff, too. Logic is fun and fascinating.
Cicero was an orator and a letter writer aside from being a defender of the Roman republic. He also had a cowardly death and wrote some pretty petty private letters that were discovered in the late middle ages. So, a great guy and a petty guy like many of us, I guess.
I think the Ciceronian label stuck to me since I have sometimes used woven sentences and clauses a bit much, maybe. One fellow I worked with said that my prose "washed over" him. Since then, I've tried to be simpler in prose. At least I don't think I'm an ancient anachronism as much, even though I'm probably not as tightly woven and curt as many today.
You know, I do wonder whether the Substackian realm is unique in its more artistic consideration of style and writing craft. I remember Medium was clogged with articles like "how to get paying subscribers and rich on Medium by following these weird tricks." (Why I abandoned the place, actually.) Substack feels more concerned about good writing. Maybe that's because it's relatively youthful as a platform.
I agree with your thoughts on medium. What I do not agree with is you simplifying your voice to please other people when it’s clear, so very clear that you’re one phenomenal writer and it would be a privilege to hear your true voice.
I do read my work out loud. But only to myself. 😂 It actually helps me spot sticky places where the flow is interrupted by an extraneous word, or even a typo. I catch a lot of there, they're, their errors when I'm reading out loud. And places where I've doubled a a word by mistake. 😉
I like my writing voice better than my speaking voice. I tend to hide behind humor armor in real life conversations. You'll definitely find that snarkiness in my writing, too, but the sweet stuff comes out more easily for me on the page.
My favorite fiction to write (and read) is a good mix heart, hurt and humor.
And rhythm is important. The rhythm of a sentence. Of a scene. The back and forth of dialogue. I think that comes from my music and theater background. If I need a character to take a dramatic pause before they say the last line of a chapter... I'm going to give you the right number of syllables of action to achieve that "space".
Then I'll resolve the chord for ya.
Promise. 😊
I think this is a great distinction to make. Reading aloud for editing purposes (catching errors) and reading aloud for performance. I wonder if the latter inspires different edits than the former.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment :) Completely agree about rhythm.
I’m with this one too. I read aloud to make sure it “sounds right.” Also I have a writing style too that’s more like “write like I talk” I love this deep dive article
Yes, rhythm is very important to me also. I posted another comment where I elaborated more the speaking voice thing. It seems you and I have some things in common. I like the way you've put it, resolving the chord. :)
Reading aloud is really important to me, too. That, and printing something out to read. Somehow the change of medium or sense makes other facets of a piece come out.
“It’s as if the whole shenanigan of literature is a dialogue between two people — reader and writer — that’s designed to be carried out entirely within our heads, a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it.”
Beautiful insight, and puts in high detail why a writer needs to always consider and honor that alchemical head-space that writing takes place in.
Loved this!
Thanks so much, Frederick :) Alchemical is the right word. In there, raw and common materials like ink and paper turn to gold.
Worry can wreck it! Also, In college, for a paper i wrote in an intro to media class, my professor found it hilarious and read my words back to me, but his pauses made undeniable jokes in my sentences i had not intended! How to live with that? Does it happen often? I suspect it often happens in reverse, someone writes something sarcastic and it’s received as sincere and profound! Also, Seeing words typed helps me generate the next words, usually alliterative with inner rhyme. Also, In the editing, i often trim the alliteration and inner rhyme, hoping to create a more authentic voice. Also, im still grateful for that other professor my senior year who warned me that there was a difference between writing and speaking and i should learn it if i wanted to pass his class! Also, working abroad, i learned to write in english that when run through a translator will be most likely to convey the meaning i intended. Also, dont limit yourself to your speaking voice. Consider writing like a performance, where it might be fun to take on a role with an accent, or stylistic quirk, perhaps a lot of run-ons, or alsos? For fun! Also, for beauty. Also, for truth!
This made me laugh too hard, Will. The thought of your professor butchering your flow with weird pauses, and you just listening and horror (and maybe embarrassment!). Thanks for dropping this fascinating comment. And yes, I agree. Writing as a performance, where you can summon any voice. But I do wonder, is there such a thing as "default" voice . . . "your voice" . . . when the performance is turned off?
Maybe, sure, an authentic voice. But I feel “authentic” might always need quotation makes around it. Unless you’re a saint and speak the same to everyone everywhere every time. Another anecdote! I wrote mass emails in college (2001) and strangers would occasionally write me and tell me that something I said uplifted them / helped them process a tough time, and could I please add them to my email list..... this deserves a much longer post I don’t have time to write... but eventually I quit! Because I was able to write these emails even when I wasn’t feeling it! I had a “voice” that I could dip into regardless of my state of mind that I knew others liked
Maybe you’re right and my experience is an example of cowardice more than terror. But in the moment, being aware of two distinct voices - one that was always there and one I could conjure, terrified me
Hmmm... rereading this it makes me sound crazy. I should revisit and reprocess my thoughts on this... ha!
Your writing style and voice, being true-to-speech, writing the way you talk- is what immediately hooked me about your writing. Reading your posts is the mental version of sinking into a comfy, oversized chair across the room from one another for a conversation that lasts as long as it may.
That leads to the brain breaker you mentioned. If we all LITERALLY sat in a room together in our big comfy chairs and started talking, the cadence/vibe/pace/etc. would be totally different for all of us than it is here in this space. The energy moves and crosses differently with physical proximity and verbal communication. You dropped that bomb (regarding literature)- “...a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it” Damn so good. It's that forethought! It gives us the chance to say what we mean and mean what we say.
I have also never “read” an audiobook. I’ve always been so adamant that it’s not as deep of an experience. But so many of my friends love them and retain the experience they have with it. It makes me wonder if they are tapping into different, transcendent elements of the book, of which I’m less aware because I’m in my warm, happy headspace. I dunno, it still feels like a different energy or wavelength being imposed upon me. But like you said- maybe not better or worse, just different.
So naturally, I do voiceovers of my writing- haha! Weird, Jeannie. It does help keep me honest. It’s helping me slowly dissolve the facade that my ego throws up to protect the real insides. I figure the voiceover is an option, not a requirement, for experiencing the text. Thank you for writing this Matt. It really got me thinking.
Dang, Jeannie! Thanks so much for the comfy couch compliment. I think it's the best ever. Great points you make. Yes, if we actually were sunken in those couches, our chatter would probably be much different, if there were any at all, since I might drift off in the warm, cozy, comfiness.
Thanks for sharing all this. And I really love your voiceovers. Not to mention, it's accessible for the vision impaired. And as some others have commented here, I think reading aloud really does force one to clean up the writing to the utmost by catching little errors and rhythm weirdness.
So much fascinating stuff in this edition. The part that really resonated with me is that people expect us to be as good with the spoken word as we are with the written word. Those are totally different talents!
Agree, Jillian! Like, I'm sorry I'm not a dang orator. Give me a pen and paper and I'll write a more eloquent response, lol. This is one reason why letter writing is a fun form of communication. It's like texting, but longer form of course.
I’ll tell you, this FEELS like you’re talking--it feels spoken, discursive. But I think I might have appreciated it in half the words. Would it be the same piece? I don’t know. I’m not trying to be critical, just to respond to your questions about finding the right balance. It’s a great question.
Appreciatively,
Tom
Thanks, Tom :) Appreciate you.
I do write for the ear. And I always read my work out loud. Like Meg says in this thread, it helps me with the flow and to catch typos, etc.
My background is in theater and I love to read in public. I like my speaking voice and try to keep it that way as a writing voice. I don't go with the Hemingway rules, at least not always. Sometimes it's fine, but I have more than one voice. My head's a little tweaky like that.
Rhythm is very important to me as well. Again, Meg and I have some things in common.
Rhythm is maybe the most important, Victor, I agree! Once you've got the basic idea of writing (punctuation, vocab, etc.) I think most all of it boils down to rhythm. Thanks for this thoughtful comment :)
Your comment reminds me of what Joan Didion has said about her writing. “Writing is piano I play by ear” or something she said like that lol
Yeah, i'm like a cult survivor type of writer so I just write like in my normal voice with varied degrees or out-rage, logical nerd and self-analytical confused rant.
Well that sounds perfectly beautiful :)
Oh and the quote “It’s as if the whole shenanigan of literature is a dialogue between two people — reader and writer — that’s designed to be carried out entirely within our heads, a space that gives a higher-order significance to everything passing through it.” 🔥💥
I also write like I talk. Then I have to reread and edit the punctuation to make sure the reader is hearing what I'm saying since they can't hear the inflection in my brain as I write. [Whew, long sentence!]
P.S. Like Grandma, I look forward to your Friday musings. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! :) Yes, for me, writing is about 20% writing, 80% editing. Although, some would call all of it "writing."
Beautifully said Arlene
Another excellent investigation. As usual. Lots of good food for thought. I really like your recognition and description of that space that writer and reader share. And then the question about the audible experience and what is lost. As you know, or at least as I've mentioned before I consume a lot of audio books as a result of my long commute. The experience like you say is necessarily different than book in hand reading. Is it better? Is it worse? Is it both better and worse depending on the particulars? I can tell you different things happen. I become very critical of the voice, whether it stays true to the characters and whether it knows how to get out of the way and let the writing come through. I can tell you that it's absolutely possible to have an emotional response to the writing. I just finished listening to The Four Winds, by Kristin Hannah and I was choking back tears over too many days as I toiled along with the characters through horrendous dust bowl nightmares. Would it possibly have been even more impactful had I read it? Possibly. I generally take in genre style books, mysteries and such for the audio trips. Afterall I want to be distracted and entertained. If there were a book , something I anticipate might be something profound, a book whose language promises to offer something rare, I will want to hold that book in my hands and enter that space you so beautifully describe. Nicely done.
Yes, I was thinking of you a bit when writing this, because I know you enjoy audiobooks! It's interesting to hear your take. I think I've heard someone else mention that they sometimes get caught up on the reader's voice. Still, I want to try it. As you say, on a long drive, why not? It's not "or" but "and". Thanks for the food for thought. Hope all is well :)
Matt, this one is a gem 💎
Grazie, Heather :) Sometimes, you get lucky I guess. Lol.
I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!!
A Portland weatherman ? No he's Zaffino.
yes the conservative wave of 2022 from the normies awash in MK Ultra was pathetic. Many know and prefer to be US citizens and just ride along with the 4th Reich. The General Public is overwhelmed by the CIA brainwashing technique named MK Ultra from Allen Dulles et al. 1950s.The current Deep State, swamp creatures; corrupt de facto is made from Paper Clip importation of WWII Nazi educated engineers and scientists. Their kids are boomers and their grandkids and GGkids are influential members of Soros et al. Judiciary of BAR, DA, DOJ. Start counting the players in the FBI and DOJ that seem to line up with Social Democrats. With German last names, Kazarian Mafia? And all the daughters are married to whom in the 4th Reich
I also think I write like I talk. But I don’t like talking nearly as much as I like writing.  I don’t trust the words I use when I talk at all like I can trust the words when I write. Interesting discussion...
Agree. Once a word is blurted, that's it! At least, in writing, you can backspace and delete whatever ridiculousness happened to escape lol.
A simple style is a treasure. Me? I've been accused of being "Ciceronian."
Interesting . . . I'm not sure what to make of that. Is that, like, didactic? Very logical? I do like reading that kind of stuff, too. Logic is fun and fascinating.
Cicero was an orator and a letter writer aside from being a defender of the Roman republic. He also had a cowardly death and wrote some pretty petty private letters that were discovered in the late middle ages. So, a great guy and a petty guy like many of us, I guess.
I think the Ciceronian label stuck to me since I have sometimes used woven sentences and clauses a bit much, maybe. One fellow I worked with said that my prose "washed over" him. Since then, I've tried to be simpler in prose. At least I don't think I'm an ancient anachronism as much, even though I'm probably not as tightly woven and curt as many today.
You know, I do wonder whether the Substackian realm is unique in its more artistic consideration of style and writing craft. I remember Medium was clogged with articles like "how to get paying subscribers and rich on Medium by following these weird tricks." (Why I abandoned the place, actually.) Substack feels more concerned about good writing. Maybe that's because it's relatively youthful as a platform.
I agree with your thoughts on medium. What I do not agree with is you simplifying your voice to please other people when it’s clear, so very clear that you’re one phenomenal writer and it would be a privilege to hear your true voice.
Great post, Matt! Plenty of food for even more thought!
Thank you, Rebecca, as always :)